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Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 3:10:04 PM   
MaddogMurphy


Posts: 70
Joined: 7/20/2008
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Hi guys, I am starting to get into painting hard surfaces and I was hoping that some of you could help me out with the basics of clearcoating and dust free areas.

I know very little about this.  after doing alot of research I just recently purchased a Sata 3000 rp 1.2 specifically for my clear. 

I will be working in my garage, which being from the las vegas desert is kind of dusty.  However I would like to create a suitable enviroment so that I can clear my projects.  What would you suggest? 
I purchased some aluminum panels which I will be painting murals on and clearing those for practice.

After doing research I know about spraying on a dust coat, then waiting 15 minutes then spraying on a wet coat, waiting another 15 min, then hitting it with a final wet coat.

I am unsure about if you need to sand inbetween these coats.

From what I understand is that clearcoating takes alot of practice and is essentially an art.  I am prepared to do what it takes to learn, If you guys could help me out or suggest any good reading material or videos.  it would be very much appreciated.

thanks
Post #: 1
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 3:18:23 PM   
rainbow lungs


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Clears of today are very forgiving.

No you do not sand between coats of clear.

if you get any dust in your final finish you and wet sand and buff out.

RBL

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Post #: 2
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 4:01:28 PM   
DalesArt

 

Posts: 9656
Joined: 11/6/2004
From: Iowa/Heaven
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaddogMurphy

After doing research I know about spraying on a dust coat, then waiting 15 minutes then spraying on a wet coat, waiting another 15 min, then hitting it with a final wet coat.

I am unsure about if you need to sand inbetween these coats.




You do not.  In fact, they should not be 100% dry.  Touch an area where the masking tape is to see if it's "almost" dry.  If it is, then shoot another coat.

If you get called away from applying clear coat - for like two days - THEN you'll have to sand to provide "tooth" because your chemical/solvent "window" will be closed. 

So ... Once you have began the clearing process, stay with it until you are done.  Just make sure to allow sufficient "flash" times between coats.  If you apply it too fast, you will have "solvent pop" which is thinner trying to escape but cannot because too much thickness has been built up.  It's best to go a little too slowly, than a little too fast.

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but people will never forget how you made them feel."
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Post #: 3
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 4:08:28 PM   
MaddogMurphy


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Joined: 7/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DalesArt

Just make sure to allow sufficient "flash" times between coats.  If you apply it too fast, you will have "solvent pop" which is thinner trying to escape but cannot because too much thickness has been built up.  It's best to go a little too slowly, than a little too fast.


Thanks for the response Dale. 
What do you mean by "flash"?

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Post #: 4
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 4:11:33 PM   
artspray

 

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well you got the right gun with imo the right set up

that gun will do the job for you they are that good imo

the info so far is sound

just damp down the work area to stop dust floating around and wear a good resparator


paul

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RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 4:14:09 PM   
artspray

 

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dale will elaborate but your flash off times will be on the technical sheets for each product inc primers bases and clears

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Post #: 6
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 4:28:47 PM   
kev da air man


Posts: 620
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From: Fox Lake, Wisconsin
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MD the "flash" is the time between the coats. it will say on the can 10-15 min or as dale sayed touch a part of the tape that has clear on it to see if it is partialy dry.

and I like to do 3 wet coats to get good coverage but 2 nice ones will work also.

Yes slower is better than faster cus you dont want sags and runs in the clear been there done that. not fun.



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Post #: 7
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 4:45:00 PM   
Hotch

 

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With uro systems, there's basecoat clear (not catalyzed, no uv protection and thin film build up) and topcoat clear (catalyzed, uv protection and high film build up).  When working with basecoat clear, you have about a 48-72  hour window where you won't need to scuff prior to recoat.  It's a good way to protect what you've already done or create a stopping point if you need to let the project sit on the shelf for awhile.  You can sand it when you start up again without messing up the artwork below the clearcoat.   Topcoat clear has a much smaller window and relying on a set time is not a good idea.  When you spray catalyzed topcoat clear, your first coat should be medium wet.  You don't "dust coat" catalyzed clear because you're looking for a chemical bond and not trying to create tooth for a physical one.  A dust coat will dry too fast and you'll miss the window for the next round. You check the coats by touching the wettest area (hidden or edge) with your knukle.  If the clear strings off onto your knuckle, it's not ready yet.  When you touch it, you want it to be tacky and "grab" your skin, but not string.  IF you wait too long and it feels dry when you touch it, you've missed the window and the next coat may very well lift.  You'll have to wait until it sets up and then scuff (for a physical bond) before you continue.

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Post #: 8
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 5:17:23 PM   
DalesArt

 

Posts: 9656
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From: Iowa/Heaven
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaddogMurphy

What do you mean by "flash"?


Flash is a term used that refers to the evaporation or drying of the thinners.  Some refer to it as kicking off!
 
(Painters are a weired bunch!  Too many inhaled fumes. )


_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did,
but people will never forget how you made them feel."
~Maya Angelou~

(in reply to MaddogMurphy)
Post #: 9
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 8:01:00 PM   
MaddogMurphy


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Joined: 7/20/2008
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Thanks for all of the responses guys. 
What about having a dust free environment?  what are some tips to have that.  Should "wall" off a certain area in the garage or is that not neccessary? 

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Post #: 10
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 8:17:23 PM   
DalesArt

 

Posts: 9656
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From: Iowa/Heaven
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It would sure help!  Wetting down the floor also helps.  Mr. Mark Clark, an ICar instructor, claims that half of the dust comes off the painter's clothing!!!  Use a damp cloth to wipe doen your hose, and take other similar precautions no matter how silly they sound.  Be SURE to strain your paint - even from a brand new can!

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did,
but people will never forget how you made them feel."
~Maya Angelou~

(in reply to MaddogMurphy)
Post #: 11
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 9:28:52 PM   
Hotch

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I paint in the garage.  I clean out the space a day or so in advance so the dust I stir up has time to settle.  When I shoot, I try to keep the air as still as possible, no drafts.   Make sure to turn off any pilot lights etc. so you don't go BOOM!  You're gonna get crap in the paint, so plan on color sanding and buffing the finished project.  It'll look fine.

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Post #: 12
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/27/2008 9:30:48 PM   
Hotch

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 4/12/2005
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As far as walling stuff off... I think that has more to do with what you don't want to get covered with overspray.  I let the spray fly where it will, but it sure makes a hell of a mess in my garage.  You can always tell the last color I sprayed by the color of everything in the garage!

(in reply to Hotch)
Post #: 13
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/28/2008 7:31:40 AM   
airbrushstef


Posts: 2432
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Antwerp Belgium
Status: offline
First of all , make sure you wear a respirator mask.
second,wear a clean overall paint suit, you know the white cheap paper type jumpsuits ? they do just fine.
tirth,make sure you have enough ventilation and the intaking air is filtered and dsut free.
forth, wet the floor and walls with a waterhose , prior to painting.
fifth, hang up big flat parts vertical from the sealing instead of laying them down horizontal on something as they will catch less dust that way.
six, hang or position the to be painted parts far enough and as far as possible from walls, floor, sealing and other to be painted parts.
seven, use a anti static degreaser to clean the parts prior to painting ones the parts are mounted in possition to paint.
eight, use a tackrag to dust off the cleaned parts and dont touch them anymore ones this is done.
nine, make your paint area restricted to you and you only' no one in the booth except the painter.
then, be carefull with electrical aplyances (compressor must be outside) as they can make the fumes rich enviroment go BOOM
eleven, always stay calm no mather what go's wrong, if something go's wrong learn from it ,fix it and go on with your job.
twelfe, if something works for you, stick to it, do not experimentate all to much with paint mixtures or mixing differant brands and stuff.
thirtheen, do not over do the thickness of clear coats, ones you have a nice gloss, step away from it and do not aply just one more coat to make it even more glossy or to give it that little bit more depht,as this can ruin the whole job making runs and all that sh*t.
fortheen, don't go balistic if you have a few dust particals in the clear, scuff and buff is the answer to that.
fiftheen, practise ,practise ,practise, and learn from your own mistakes thats the only way to master also this part of the job. 

I could go one with adding more small details but I'm pretty sure that if you do all of the above you will do a very good clear coat job for beeing a garage booth painter.and I'm sure you can come up with answers to small problems yourself if they apear.


greetz Stef

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Post #: 14
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/28/2008 11:48:04 PM   
Tagz

 

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Joined: 8/8/2007
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At our shop we use something similar to 3m's Dust Control Spray found HERE .
Works good especially when we have a large job that wont fit into the booths. Spray the floor good with it and it causes dust to stick to itself. So  they get clumped up to where there to heavy to go airborne. In your garage you could spray the walls etc if you wanted. It works good for blowing out an area to clean. Instead of a big dust storm use it first then blow out the garage. The dirt just rolls out instead of flying all around.

(in reply to airbrushstef)
Post #: 15
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/29/2008 3:55:13 AM   
artspray

 

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i use androv medical full spectrum daylight bulbs with ionizers this clears smoke and dust by makeing the particles stick together ,the light produced is the exact wavelengths Dru Blair recomends


paul

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im always in the sh~t its only the depth that varies

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Post #: 16
RE: Clearcoating help please - 7/29/2008 4:00:39 AM   
MaddogMurphy


Posts: 70
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
Thanks everyone for the help.   

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Post #: 17
RE: Clearcoating help please - 8/6/2008 8:44:43 PM   
JIMMY.CRACKCORN

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline
Maddog in case you pass the flash time and the clear is a little dry for the next coat just spray reducer on the panel you are painting it will cause the clear to melt some and the next coat will be ready. be carefull not to spray to much cause then you'll have runs.

(in reply to MaddogMurphy)
Post #: 18
RE: Clearcoating help please - 8/6/2008 10:23:35 PM   
kdlemon38


Posts: 738
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
Just wanna second what Hotch said, and Airhead has said it here too in the past. Don't apply your first coat as a dustcoat. My guy lays it on thick every coat, almost to the point of runs, but thats where the technique comes in. You stand a good chance of the clear lifting if you don't apply the first coat to where it can bond properly.

(in reply to JIMMY.CRACKCORN)
Post #: 19
RE: Clearcoating help please - 8/6/2008 10:36:20 PM   
Runninghorse242


Posts: 646
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: airbrushstef

First of all , make sure you wear a respirator mask.
second,wear a clean overall paint suit, you know the white cheap paper type jumpsuits ? they do just fine.
tirth,make sure you have enough ventilation and the intaking air is filtered and dsut free.
forth, wet the floor and walls with a waterhose , prior to painting.
fifth, hang up big flat parts vertical from the sealing instead of laying them down horizontal on something as they will catch less dust that way.
six, hang or position the to be painted parts far enough and as far as possible from walls, floor, sealing and other to be painted parts.
seven, use a anti static degreaser to clean the parts prior to painting ones the parts are mounted in possition to paint.
eight, use a tackrag to dust off the cleaned parts and dont touch them anymore ones this is done.
nine, make your paint area restricted to you and you only' no one in the booth except the painter.
then, be carefull with electrical aplyances (compressor must be outside) as they can make the fumes rich enviroment go BOOM
eleven, always stay calm no mather what go's wrong, if something go's wrong learn from it ,fix it and go on with your job.
twelfe, if something works for you, stick to it, do not experimentate all to much with paint mixtures or mixing differant brands and stuff.
thirtheen, do not over do the thickness of clear coats, ones you have a nice gloss, step away from it and do not aply just one more coat to make it even more glossy or to give it that little bit more depht,as this can ruin the whole job making runs and all that sh*t.
fortheen, don't go balistic if you have a few dust particals in the clear, scuff and buff is the answer to that.
fiftheen, practise ,practise ,practise, and learn from your own mistakes thats the only way to master also this part of the job. 

I could go one with adding more small details but I'm pretty sure that if you do all of the above you will do a very good clear coat job for beeing a garage booth painter.and I'm sure you can come up with answers to small problems yourself if they apear.


greetz Stef



Stef....  (even though I wasn't reading that all aloud, I had to take a deep breath at the end with my respirator mask on!)   LOL

Great tips!!

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There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure.- Colin Powell

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